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OK. Good evening everyone. I would like to call to order the Vermilion Planning Commission meeting for Wednesday, July 9th. 00:00:02
Melanie, would you take roll call, please? 00:00:11
Williams here. Chapel. 00:00:13
Shirley here for me. 00:00:16
Here. 00:00:18
We have Mayor Forth over with us this evening, Chris Howard, city engineer, and Jeff Lucas, Council representative. 00:00:20
Hey, thank you. 00:00:26
So everyone should have received a copy of our last meeting minutes from June 4th. Were there any questions on those minutes? 00:00:28
They have approval of those minutes. 00:00:36
Shirley, Yes. Chapel Williams. Yes. Cameron Smith. 00:00:42
For me, yes. Motion carried. 00:00:46
Hey, any correspondence will be deferred to. 00:00:49
New business under our. 00:00:54
New business of our meeting. 00:00:56
To my knowledge, we have no old business to discuss. 00:00:58
So under new business, our applicant this evening is Wallach Asset Management. 00:01:03
If you could come forward. 00:01:07
You can just please state your names and address for the record. 00:01:11
My name is Judy McHugh with Wallet Communities, and my address is 1375 Hickory Ridge Lane, Columbus, OH 43235. 00:01:22
Hey, my name is Matt Dennis. 00:01:31
I'm also with interest to 1621 Village Drive. 00:01:33
I don't know. OK. 00:01:38
And if you could please present. 00:01:39
The plans tonight just tell us a little bit about what you're looking to. 00:01:42
To do and what you're asking them the Planning Commission. 00:01:46
So thank you for having us. 00:01:51
I mean, like I said, my name is Judy Mccune. 00:01:53
About six years now. 00:01:57
Just a little bit of background wallet. So we are vertically integrated real estate company based just outside of Columbus. 00:01:59
Primarily specializing in the affordable housing and senior senior living assisted living Manly care space. 00:02:06
So we've been around for 50 plus years and we. 00:02:14
Own and Oregon manage about 13,000 units throughout Ohio, Kentucky. 00:02:18
Indiana, Michigan. 00:02:23
The Carolinas and you know, I, we do have a couple assets in Illinois and Pennsylvania, yeah. 00:02:26
Umm, so you know, like I said, we're, we're vertically integrated, so we do the development for our own general contractor. 00:02:31
A property management and long term owner of any assets that we build. 00:02:39
So that's a little bit of high level overview on the wall, like if you have some more information if you'd like to like to see 00:02:44
that. Sure, that would be great. Thank you. 00:02:49
Fixing that. 00:02:54
Yeah, it's like a it's our little fish book background. Thank you. 00:02:58
So. 00:03:17
Ultimately, what we're proposing on Douglas St. is we are essentially asking for. 00:03:18
A rezoning for agricultural to our 5. 00:03:24
And our our plan is to construct. 00:03:28
This is the site that you have in front of you is 112. 00:03:30
Of 1-2 and three bedroom apartment. 00:03:34
So these apartment units, I say up to 112 because we're, you know, we're still working through some things with our architect, 00:03:38
engineer. 00:03:42
So, you know, we're still in the preliminary planning stages. 00:03:47
But what are? 00:03:51
Plan to do is we are going to. 00:03:52
Apply for an award of. 00:03:55
Housing tax credit from the State Finance Agency in August. 00:03:57
And that basically allows us to. 00:04:02
We take those credits that they're awarded to us as a competitive process and then we sell them to an investor. 00:04:05
That investor, then. 00:04:11
Gives U.S. equity to build a project. So that's how affordable housing development. 00:04:12
Around the country essentially works. 00:04:17
So. 00:04:20
You know, in order to construct those 112 units or up to 112 units, that's. 00:04:22
Essentially, that's what we need to. 00:04:26
Finance the said project. 00:04:28
So. 00:04:30
You know, the way we have it right now is that we have 41 bedroom units, 52 two bedrooms, a 23 bedroom. 00:04:32
It's now because we're applying for these tax credits. 00:04:37
All of the units will be rented, income restricted to. 00:04:41
Residents earning less than 80% of the area income. 00:04:44
So. 00:04:48
The tax credits that we received essentially require us to. 00:04:49
You know, cap the risk, so it's not like. 00:04:55
It's not like Section 8 or their subsidies to rent or low. 00:04:58
And the tax credit equity allows us to keep those rents low for a period of 30 years. 00:05:01
So. 00:05:07
You know wallet as a developer. 00:05:09
Contractor property manager. We would be the long term manager of the asset for at least 15 years. 00:05:11
And now you know, the target population is really, you know. 00:05:18
Seniors. 00:05:22
You know, families with. 00:05:25
You know, it's, it's basically Bailey's earning $65,000 a year or less. 00:05:27
So I mean that can be. 00:05:33
You'd be amazed at how many. 00:05:35
People that I mean. 00:05:37
Firefighters, police officers, teachers. 00:05:38
People that work in the service industry, the tourism industry. 00:05:41
You know, and go down the list. So you know, we built a similar product in golden green. 00:05:45
You know, it's was recently completed, so it's in the possible stuff, but it's really nice it's been. 00:05:51
It's been well received by the community. 00:05:56
You know, we're a professional contractor. It's built to, you know, any standard of a typical, what we call marketing project. 00:05:59
So you know all the units would come with. 00:06:07
Dishwashers. Fully equipped kitchen patios, balconies. 00:06:10
I mean, you know, again, just like you could see any normal apartment complex. 00:06:15
And then, you know, a Community Center with a playground. 00:06:18
On site management Central laundry facility. 00:06:22
Computer room, exercise room, you know, those are the types of entities that we would provide. 00:06:25
That is an analyst here I think, I think high level life cycling you guys have in front of you, you have a higher 12 units and. 00:06:31
After speaking with the mayor, driving home. 00:06:38
Senior housing lead, I think you're being intentionally flexible here. 00:06:42
To hear from you guys. 00:06:46
Hearing Everybody City. 00:06:47
Designing a project that really fits the need of where it is and what you guys are looking for. 00:06:49
I think 2 stories. 00:06:56
What we have right now, I don't want to. 00:06:57
Come in, but in. 00:07:00
Three story, four story account takes the yeah when you get the neighborhood and fit the aesthetic around it so. 00:07:01
We had on it. 00:07:09
Connecting with. 00:07:10
We have two entryways here, right up without the street, mayor. 00:07:11
The congestion, especially during traffic in school. 00:07:16
Having more than one entry and exit. 00:07:19
For families and students get picked up there. 00:07:21
Was another thing that was certainly consideration. 00:07:24
Yeah, and I think too, we, you know. 00:07:29
We have a, we'll have a plan to sort of landscape and buffer the residents in the neighborhood. That's fine there, but we 00:07:32
intentionally aren't connecting to those side streets for purposes of traffic. 00:07:36
So, yeah, I mean that, like I said, that's the project. You know, we're still, we're still working on number of bedrooms. 00:07:43
Unit count, you know, we are aware of. 00:07:49
You know, potential for underground storm sewer which could get expensive. 00:07:51
Again, you know this is all. 00:07:56
You know, it's preliminary and it's conceptual, but you know, by the time we advance this to a full application. 00:07:59
You know, maybe that's a good step with sort of the timeline that we're working with so. 00:08:05
We have to submit an application to the state housing agency in August 16th. 00:08:09
So by that point in time we would need some type of conditional zone. 00:08:15
That is, you know, that essentially allows us to submit our application. 00:08:19
You know the state agency gets. 00:08:24
Probably 70 applications a year and 30 don't get awards. Super competitive. 00:08:26
And you know. 00:08:32
It takes two or three months for the savings to review and then they announced the awards in October. 00:08:35
And at that point in time, then we would move to a full permanent set of plans. We would go through, you know. 00:08:41
All the due diligence, of course, meetings with. 00:08:46
You know the proper stakeholders. 00:08:50
So that's a little bit of. 00:08:52
You know, just kind of the time I'm working with and I should, you know. 00:08:54
I should have said this earlier, but we. 00:08:57
Currently do not own the real estate. We have another contract. 00:08:59
So. 00:09:03
The contract and I would assume the rezoning, the conditional rezoning is contingent upon the support. 00:09:04
If the war doesn't happen, then it's, you know, we can't make the number of work. 00:09:11
So. 00:09:14
And then obviously the the. 00:09:16
The land would state the current seller, current owner. 00:09:18
Percentage of senior living so you're. 00:09:24
It's referring to more independent living I'm assuming. 00:09:26
Yeah. And you know, we have the ability to, I mean. 00:09:30
So to see how the agency allows you to, do you know seniors 55 and older or you know what they call a general occupancy? 00:09:34
And to not get too much into the weeds, but like in order to be competitive and you know, to. 00:09:42
Make the deal with the numbers all pencil. 00:09:49
Like we need to have some level of economies of scale. 00:09:52
And having that 1-2 and three bedroom units like that. 00:09:55
That's kind of what's key. 00:09:58
You know we, we will, you know we have in our marketing place if we lease the seniors 55 and older. 00:10:01
But it's not restricted to that population. 00:10:07
And I should know too that we. 00:10:10
Do have will have to have 10% of our units be ADA accessible or? 00:10:12
You know Section 504 and Opus 88 accessibility standards? Sure. 00:10:17
So can there be exceptions in the allotment that would be just for seniors and some families? 00:10:23
Yeah, now there will be. 00:10:30
Because of the funds we're applying for, and I said it's up to 80% of the area median income, but we will have some units that 00:10:33
target residents that earn up to 50%, up to 60%. So like there's bands in between. 00:10:38
So it really does reach a lot of people and, you know, I think that. 00:10:44
Affordable housing now probably more than ever. 00:10:48
Is, you know, kind of recognizes as needed. 00:10:50
Rather than a. 00:10:53
You know, umm. 00:10:54
I guess that community. 00:10:55
You know, it carries A stigma all the time, but. 00:10:57
You know, we've had a lot of success and like I said, the program is. 00:11:02
Is highly successful and. 00:11:05
By far the largest tool for constructing affordable housing, not just a black in the United States. 00:11:08
Yeah, I think the most intentionally is our unit mix. So currently we're showing once while. 00:11:14
41 bedrooms, 52 bedrooms and generally our senior. 00:11:22
Communities are one and two bedrooms. 00:11:26
And I know a lot of seniors do prefer having like that two-bedroom unit, especially when they're. 00:11:28
Married or the partner or somebody in the house as well. So what do we want to design? 00:11:33
The land he has in front of you. 00:11:39
The 41 direction 52 really was a blend of the workforce. 00:11:41
The local workforce and considering procedures as well. 00:11:45
Tell me a little bit about safety and security. So obviously as your. 00:11:51
Well aware there's that's right in the heart of our school zone. You know, the elementary school in the middle school. 00:11:54
There's a lot of. 00:12:00
Children who and kids who walk. 00:12:01
Back and forth on that road. It's, it's, you know. 00:12:04
Ride their bikes so. 00:12:06
Obviously more people, more congestion, more traffic. 00:12:08
What about safety and security of? 00:12:13
Of. 00:12:15
Apartment complex as a whole you mentioned on site manager. 00:12:16
Can you tell us a little bit about that? 00:12:20
Yeah. So I mean given the size of the project is there will be an on site manager there 40 hours? 00:12:22
Plus we. 00:12:27
We installed our new properties a you know. 00:12:28
A pretty robust camera system. 00:12:31
That we actually. 00:12:33
Send the Police Department, they have life and care and you might have this better. There's a there's a name for it, I just can't 00:12:35
recall. 00:12:38
But the the Police Department basically has access to that camera system. You know they can. 00:12:43
Login, look at anytime you please. 00:12:49
But, you know, we typically don't. 00:12:52
You know, unless it's in. 00:12:54
You know, unless it's in a particular area for people, we don't really offer like. 00:12:56
You know, on site security, if that's what you're asking. But we do have cameras, you know, at the clubhouse. 00:13:00
You know, usually at all points of entry. 00:13:06
You know that he's either monitored by the property manager and the Police Department has access to. 00:13:10
Kids and the bikes. We currently have a 50 foot set back off the street. 00:13:16
So building would be kind of removed from Douglas so that there will be enough space. 00:13:20
I'm not sure we're showing on the sidewalk or anything along those. There'll be it won't be like kids running out the backyard and 00:13:25
then stumbling out of the street right away. 00:13:29
Plenty of them offer others and landscape as well, kind of Dubai, the community publishers as well. 00:13:33
I would assume we we. 00:13:39
Require us. 00:13:40
Least the sidewalk on your entire property, yeah. 00:13:42
Yeah, copy on both. 00:13:45
Yeah, and that's yeah. And you know, once we get past. 00:13:48
Make sure that gets all of the architectural plans. 00:13:52
Would we need? 00:13:55
Light a traffic light there or. 00:13:57
Photometric point. 00:14:00
A traffic light. 00:14:02
Now and what's my utilities? Are you comfortable that we would have enough to? 00:14:04
Chris, you mentioned in your letter that. 00:14:13
You know further ordinance for R5. 00:14:17
Umm, because of the residential density in this district, it cannot exceed 6 dwelling units, which is only 64 units. 00:14:21
And they're requesting 112. 00:14:30
Talk about that for a minute. 00:14:32
Yeah, just the the R5 zoning. 00:14:34
Certainly states that the density limitations. 00:14:37
And that residential density in the district shall not see 61. 00:14:41
Are there exceptions to that? 00:14:48
Yeah, this was a question our architect actually had. 00:14:53
Because I think somewhere where she saw there was 12 units an acre. 00:14:55
I can't exactly point to. 00:14:59
Stuck in the code, but I yeah that was something we could want to discuss. 00:15:00
I'm not sure where that shows well. 00:15:04
I would imagine. 00:15:10
But for a legal question, I don't know if you can. 00:15:12
Right, forgot, Chris, is the city engineer's letter. 00:15:17
We in the office talk about what actions there are if you don't. 00:15:20
Exactly the question you're asking them. 00:15:25
And we believe it would have to go to Law Director Furniture. 00:15:27
Gotcha. 00:15:33
I mean, because that's. 00:15:35
A big point, I'm sure that you. 00:15:37
Would like 112 units so. 00:15:39
Right. Yeah. And I mean again, like if we, if we. 00:15:42
Go with less units. Let's say it's 100. We're still going to. If that's the case, we're still need of like a severe things of some 00:15:45
kind of. 00:15:47
I don't know what the if there's like you said, there's something. 00:15:51
Some legality involved to it that we would have to discuss, sure. 00:15:55
You know, but I guess I would say too that, you know, we can. 00:16:00
For our the purposes of our application. 00:16:04
You know we can. 00:16:06
The land just has to be zoned for multifamily, you know, we can go for variances after the fact. 00:16:08
You know, I guess as long as we have some sort of level of comfort that. 00:16:15
You know it'll be approved and it's not going to be a ton of black, you know, just because. 00:16:18
You know, once the application goes in and especially if it's awarded, then we're kind of. 00:16:22
You know, the state agency is trusting us to ensure that it's done. 00:16:26
So sure. And that is something that we do have to resubmit the application, right? 00:16:31
If we can. 00:16:35
Come to resolution by October when they announced that weekend. 00:16:36
Justin, if we can afford the application, yeah. 00:16:39
The one thing I may say, ma'am, Chair, if I can, is that I mean, I'm going to restate the obvious, which is everybody looks at. 00:16:42
City of Vermillion has lived here for the only time, knows that we have two underserved demographics. 00:16:49
No seniors. 00:16:53
With affordable housing. 00:16:55
And the people of more modest meetings affordable. 00:16:57
New report. 00:16:59
And I believe based on what these gentlemen are saying in the equation, that would. 00:17:01
Address some of that need. 00:17:07
However. 00:17:10
It's also obvious that there are a lot of T's and IS to cross. 00:17:10
Go through things like. 00:17:15
Density and traffic, and probably wetlands and all the other things. 00:17:17
But just rough look at it first. 00:17:22
I would like to look further, Steve, whatever available senior housing and maybe. 00:17:25
Sure. What? What would you say is the percentage of? 00:17:30
This compared to all the apartments we currently have. 00:17:35
Percentage of this additional 100. 00:17:39
What would that be as a percentage of all the apartments are currently in? I tried to find that information and. 00:17:43
The only thing I could find online is it was about 24% in their million. 00:17:51
But I don't. I don't. 00:17:55
I don't know how accurate that is, so we don't know. 00:17:56
No. 00:18:05
And relative to the density is there, do we have other? 00:18:07
Complexes that exceed that. 00:18:11
66 units per acre. 00:18:14
I don't know if this was built years ago. 00:18:17
Yeah. So that was. 00:18:20
My grandfather dinner. 00:18:23
Protocol change. 00:18:26
I will say to. 00:18:28
You know, as part of our application at least our due diligence, we will get a full market study. 00:18:30
You know that we'll be able to answer some of those questions. I mean they're pretty in depth too and actually have a lot of good 00:18:36
to have that we're happy to share when that comes in. 00:18:40
Sure. 00:18:44
You know, I'm not opposed to the. 00:18:46
Senior housing. 00:18:49
I'm not sure this is the right. 00:18:51
This this location. 00:18:54
Right next to the. 00:18:57
Schools and parks. 00:18:58
Everything. 00:19:00
Cries for housing or apartment complex that. 00:19:01
Goes to young families maybe. 00:19:06
As opposed to senior? 00:19:09
Well, it does. 00:19:10
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I'm not this is, this is by number means strictly senior. We're just saying we can market it to seniors and 00:19:12
seniors can live here, but. 00:19:15
You know. 00:19:19
Single mom with three kids, you know certainly that you know. 00:19:21
Business, you know the three different units in particular designed for that. 00:19:24
That type of demographic. 00:19:28
So you're gonna. 00:19:30
Intermingle both. 00:19:30
Correct. Yes. And we see that's pretty. 00:19:32
These are seniors who you said independent living. So they're absolutely, they 100% do the care on their own. There's no assisted 00:19:35
living, there's no nursing home care. 00:19:39
And we see the luck. You would like some of the accessible units where there's 48 features, even it's unrefavorable properties 00:19:45
the. 00:19:49
Folks that tend to live in our older. 00:19:52
And not necessarily fully disabled, but have some level of disability. 00:19:55
Sure, you'll have elevators. 00:19:58
No, no elevators. No elevators. 00:20:00
That may be hard for yeah, I mean, but the first war will be, I mean, it's not like there's commercial space on the 1st floor. So 00:20:03
I mean, they're just split level 2 story. 00:20:08
A good story walk up. 00:20:15
But all the accessible units to your point would have to be on the ground. 00:20:16
So one up to the other. 00:20:21
So the market study will kind of help us. 00:20:25
Dictate that but like. 00:20:28
You know, I think preliminary we have for a. 00:20:29
You know a one bedroom unit? Call it. 00:20:33
775 to 1000 or yeah to about 1000. 00:20:35
Two-bedroom. 00:20:39
About 1000 to 1200. 00:20:40
And then a three bedroom. 00:20:42
You know, 1250 to like 1400. Again, it depends on that income. 00:20:44
So you know. 00:20:49
The units that are at the 50% in command are going to be cheaper and once you get to 80%, you know. 00:20:50
You're, you know, at 20% of what the market Rep would be. So you're still at. 00:20:56
Discount to. 00:21:01
You know, to the rented area. 00:21:04
Is this similar to what you would build? 00:21:06
An example of a building like that you're referring to and that you gave us, or I guess I'm just trying to understand what the 00:21:09
style of the building would look like. 00:21:13
These are a little taller maybe. Yeah, actually, this is this is an assisted living property that's in Sylvania in Toledo, but. 00:21:19
Probably a good example of. 00:21:27
Harding Village. 00:21:29
Yeah, Arnie villages are the examples. So that's yeah. 00:21:31
OK. So do you have any estimates on what it's like? 00:21:36
The total occupancy would be in terms of the number of people. 00:21:41
What that what that would mean? 00:21:45
Please interact is another. 00:21:49
Yeah, 200, give or take. 00:21:54
Yeah, I mean. 00:21:57
And in terms of like, you know, real estate investment and this is a $3541.00 project, so I mean. 00:21:58
It's, you know, a handful of temporary construction jobs. 00:22:04
To then you know 3 to 4. 00:22:08
Part time. 00:22:11
You know, over property manager, maintenance technicians. 00:22:12
Yeah, we do. You know wallet. 00:22:18
It's been a we've been around for a long time. We have. 00:22:20
A very deep base of subcontractors that we work with. 00:22:23
You know, in Cleveland, Northwest Ohio, so. 00:22:29
You know, we make an effort and you know, a lot of the funding sources be applied for required to use, you know, local trades. 00:22:32
So yeah, we're just a general contract that we, you know, have a full self contract is that we work with, but they're not really. 00:22:40
So you see the architectural style would be representative what we see here for Harden Village. Yeah, I think we deal with the 00:22:52
color way, yeah. And we work globally with like. 00:22:57
Kind of fit more of a scenic like obviously for million beyond the lake. See more of those like pallet Blues whites. 00:23:03
And we have other products. 00:23:09
In places that we found out comes to mind like a nice blue and white rather than like the tan or but if we were to architect. 00:23:11
You know really good about. 00:23:20
Seems like this we work with RDL Architects are based out of Cleveland. 00:23:22
Do more different reviews. 00:23:27
Yeah. 00:23:31
You know, once we get, you know, to that point, then we'll have you know. 00:23:32
Renderings for. 00:23:35
Architectural set and. 00:23:37
You know, further on top of the timeline and I guess it's sort of a big continue that. 00:23:38
You know if the project is awarded in October. 00:23:43
It does take us some time to. 00:23:47
Get all our financing together. We have to bundle those tax credits and sell them to an investor. There's a process that's 00:23:49
involved, so. 00:23:52
You know, typically we would try to begin construction. 00:23:55
At the end of the. 00:23:58
Following year so. 00:24:00
Call it. 00:24:02
Follow up 26 sounds crazy segment. 00:24:03
Yeah. And then about 15 to 17 month construction. 00:24:06
OK. And all the American states that they're open, there's no garages or correct, no. 00:24:11
I have two questions. Is there a number I? 00:24:20
A low number that you'd be comfortable with, with the minimum if 112. 00:24:23
So it's 112. 00:24:28
Is not. Is not available. 00:24:29
Is there a low number that you'd be comfortable with? 00:24:31
So. 00:24:34
So a little bit of a that's not a loaded question, but there's a lot of factors that later that one I mean. 00:24:36
The seller of the land has made it pretty clear that. 00:24:41
He's telling us all this or nothing. 00:24:44
So you know in. 00:24:46
So that the price is what it's going to be. 00:24:48
You know, so less units, you know, the less speed. 00:24:50
The less units we have to pay for the purchase price. 00:24:53
So you know, that's way #1 point #2 is that. 00:24:56
The tiebreaker for the funding source that we're applying for is number of opponents. 00:25:00
So like we're trying to be sort of strategic with how we compete for these funds. 00:25:05
So you know, to answer your question, I think we probably need to be like. 00:25:10
At a minimum of. 00:25:15
I think at that point we might have the like less than the one bedrooms and more size, yeah. 00:25:18
Kind of get those and that would be the second question you mentioned based on. 00:25:24
Median income. 00:25:29
Before 2 bedroom would be 1000 to 1200. 00:25:31
Just a spitballing. 00:25:33
But. 00:25:35
Hey, did you do market research on some of the other apartment complexes that are new in the area? 00:25:37
There's one in particular in Word for. 00:25:42
Which umm. 00:25:44
They have a 2 bedroom with A2 car garage. 00:25:45
And it's at the high end. 00:25:49
Of that. 00:25:51
Pricing so. 00:25:52
Is it affordable housing? 00:25:54
At that rate for a 2 bedroom. 00:25:56
Just trying to get to that price. Yeah, you know, and again, like I said, don't don't quote me on the exact number that's. 00:25:59
That will come with a market study, but you know, keep in mind too that. 00:26:06
You know we're also paying as part of that rent, water, sewer and trash. 00:26:10
I don't know if that's apples to apples with that. So I mean it, you know, it does get a little bit complicated. 00:26:13
But you know, at the 80% AMI income level. 00:26:19
You know that's. 00:26:22
You know that takes into account the. 00:26:24
Erie County. 00:26:26
Irrigating something it deducts, so there's a quake basically involved with it. OK. 00:26:28
And we'll have that data as we commissioned the brightest study and it's probably a four or five being turn around. 00:26:32
Before we'll have let that concrete number. 00:26:39
So for your application that you have to spend on August 16. 00:26:43
You need to put the number of units that you're requesting, so we would need to get them an answer from legal. 00:26:46
To see if that's feasible prior to them. 00:26:53
So they could submit the application. 00:26:55
I walk into it. I'm not sure legal can tell you what they can do. They'll probably tell you what of course they can file to apply. 00:26:59
Like I said, if we have to go through the variance process, we. 00:27:08
I don't know if that goes to the Training Commission or. 00:27:11
I guess we could talk at a different date, but. 00:27:17
And so. 00:27:25
Your request this evening is for us to make a recommendation for rezoning. 00:27:26
So. 00:27:32
Should this project fall through for any reason? 00:27:34
Than we have. 00:27:36
Made that recommendation to rezone that property and are we comfortable with that? 00:27:39
The other thing is once, once you. 00:27:46
If you approve this the rezoning. 00:27:48
Strasburg Council 3 Sure, yes. 00:27:50
Yes. 00:27:54
And yes. And will that happen before? 00:27:55
August 16. 00:27:59
No, no, there will be two. 00:28:01
No one. 00:28:05
Now we have a meeting. 00:28:08
To one on 22nd, 1:00 on. 00:28:10
So we make a recommendation this evening as Planning Commission and then it goes to our City Council. 00:28:17
And they have the final say to give you approval. 00:28:23
And and there's so many readings. 00:28:27
And they're already scheduled meetings, so. 00:28:31
You know, we wouldn't be able to watch the reading before August. 00:28:35
Three or can you make that an emergency? 00:28:40
Case. 00:28:43
221st. 00:28:46
Council meeting. 00:28:48
And then the 11th of the committee, special counsel, Yeah. So they also want to be the earliest. 00:28:51
We can work with that, OK. 00:28:58
But we would have to announce it. 00:29:00
So what if this? 00:29:08
You can't change it back. 00:29:11
It was my understanding this was a conditional rezoning. 00:29:16
Maybe I'm wrong, but like. 00:29:19
If the rezoning is continued upon your project, this project being successful. So like if it doesn't happen and it just goes back 00:29:21
to what it was, I could be wrong. 00:29:24
So OK. 00:29:41
Yeah. And like, I mean, I think that our. 00:29:43
Our seller is pretty supportive of what we're doing. 00:29:45
You know what's an issue with it if it falls through for Dusty? 00:29:49
I think I can run it by him but. 00:29:55
But yeah, I guess it. 00:30:00
Hopefully it will not worry about it. Something gets the work. 00:30:01
Sure. 00:30:04
Do your projects typically get awarded when you submit the application? 00:30:07
I think, I think we're pretty good, right. I mean, I think we don't really advance applications especially we don't. 00:30:12
Waste their time coming up right? We wouldn't be here if we didn't do. 00:30:19
Right. And I mean it's, you know, quite frankly, you know our dollar for putting out to advance this application to get it to a. 00:30:25
You know, a 5050 chance. 00:30:31
I mean, but that's the way the business works. I mean, that's the way the tax credit program is. It's just competitive. Yeah, this 00:30:33
one's full score. The full score. They've identified Gary Counties. 00:30:38
Last doctor said no reconstruction. Affordable housing units across full county. Yes zero. Sandusky Vermillion. 00:30:43
And really what this program is tailored towards the? 00:30:50
Marker scale places that can't get neglected in the previous rounds in terms of geography so. 00:30:53
You're making the three C's. 00:30:58
Big cities and an Appalachian really gonna hit the other programs that. 00:30:59
I think there comes any kind of thing areas and they looked in that way. 00:31:03
By opening historian the way that it did here. So we kind of follow the promise to the high score. 00:31:07
That the state goes out and it's like it's right up to permain. 00:31:14
Your time specifically on this side or what side of? 00:31:17
Per million so. 00:31:20
I feel confident. 00:31:22
And it's going to be worth so much. Better come up here. 00:31:23
Sound language throwing application. Waste of time. 00:31:26
Cross our fingers. We feel pretty good, Yeah. And we, you know. 00:31:29
We can only apply for so many. 00:31:32
You know different resources in certain application around, so you can only get a couple of bytes on behalf. 00:31:34
Um. 00:31:41
So I guess in terms of, you know, let's say we do end up reducing our human count to 80 or 90, whatever the case may be, so. 00:31:42
Would that just be have to be? 00:31:49
Reproposed it. 00:31:52
City Council. 00:31:54
But if we reduce 3 income, we have to come back to the Planning Commission. 00:31:56
OK, so once. 00:32:08
If council approved it. 00:32:10
And you'd have to come back to Planning Commission for recycling. 00:32:11
Yeah, which is a more complex site plan which would need to include everything landscaping. 00:32:15
Sidewalks. Everything. 00:32:22
Yeah. 00:32:27
Fair enough. 00:32:28
But I think. 00:32:30
The legal department, if they could get them. 00:32:33
You know, some sort of guidance. 00:32:36
On this for their application process. 00:32:38
Healthy. 00:32:42
It's an important step, I think. 00:32:43
For you to determine. 00:32:47
You know. 00:32:49
What's next? 00:32:50
Any other questions? 00:32:54
Any questions from the Commission? 00:32:59
Any questions from the audience? 00:33:02
Sure. 00:33:08
If you could just state your name and address for the record, please sure. 00:33:10
My name is Karen April, My address is 4788 Buckingham Drive. 00:33:14
Actually grew up in Vermilion now, so I'm excited here with the team tonight. 00:33:20
Yeah. 00:33:25
Yeah, I did want to mention while I was sitting there, I looked and it's actually on like your zoning summary page is where it's 00:33:26
showing. 00:33:29
The 12 going units per acre under our five, so you have kind of. 00:33:33
Like a homepage for zoning districts. And that's probably where the confusion is. 00:33:37
Yeah, because that's what made brought up so OK. 00:33:42
So just something that. 00:33:45
To take a look at. 00:33:46
So I just want to worry about that. 00:33:48
OK, which page is it? 00:33:51
Our test takes a pretty deep dive right there on the bottom right hand corner. 00:34:03
They try to align the code with. 00:34:08
Sure, District. 00:34:10
On our city here on your city sites when you scroll to archive. 00:34:13
The way on here are. 00:34:18
6 Here's our 5. 00:34:20
So the last second to last. 00:34:23
Just the 12th. Very interesting. OK, yeah, good. 00:34:26
Thank you. Thank you. 00:34:33
So there are no further questions. 00:34:39
Do I have a? 00:34:43
Recommendation to. 00:34:45
Change the zoning from our four urban residents to our five apartment residents. 00:34:48
Contingent, we would make that recommendation to City Council. 00:34:56
Contention upon. 00:35:01
Also meeting the additional things that. 00:35:03
Chris put in his. 00:35:06
Letter as well. 00:35:08
So we have. 00:35:11
Well, I think that needs to be. 00:35:17
If I understand correctly, but I'm asking the law director is. 00:35:20
If the density becomes challenged later on. 00:35:25
Of course, what recourse do they have? But. 00:35:29
I don't know. I don't think, Chris, I don't really think it affects your. 00:35:32
Now I think they need to know that because they need to put the number of units for their applications. 00:35:38
So they that's kind of an important step one for them to proceed. 00:35:45
To their next step. 00:35:49
OK. 00:35:52
2nd. 00:35:56
We'll vote Chapel. 00:35:59
Williams No. 00:36:02
Shirley yes. 00:36:04
Hammer, Schmidt. 00:36:06
For me. 00:36:08
Motion carries. 00:36:09
OK. Thank you. 00:36:14
1st. 00:36:18
Hey. 00:36:24
This one that you have in front, you can read the underground. 00:36:30
All right, being no further business, I will adjourn the meeting. 00:36:36
Our next screening is scheduled for August 6. 00:36:47
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Transcript
OK. Good evening everyone. I would like to call to order the Vermilion Planning Commission meeting for Wednesday, July 9th. 00:00:02
Melanie, would you take roll call, please? 00:00:11
Williams here. Chapel. 00:00:13
Shirley here for me. 00:00:16
Here. 00:00:18
We have Mayor Forth over with us this evening, Chris Howard, city engineer, and Jeff Lucas, Council representative. 00:00:20
Hey, thank you. 00:00:26
So everyone should have received a copy of our last meeting minutes from June 4th. Were there any questions on those minutes? 00:00:28
They have approval of those minutes. 00:00:36
Shirley, Yes. Chapel Williams. Yes. Cameron Smith. 00:00:42
For me, yes. Motion carried. 00:00:46
Hey, any correspondence will be deferred to. 00:00:49
New business under our. 00:00:54
New business of our meeting. 00:00:56
To my knowledge, we have no old business to discuss. 00:00:58
So under new business, our applicant this evening is Wallach Asset Management. 00:01:03
If you could come forward. 00:01:07
You can just please state your names and address for the record. 00:01:11
My name is Judy McHugh with Wallet Communities, and my address is 1375 Hickory Ridge Lane, Columbus, OH 43235. 00:01:22
Hey, my name is Matt Dennis. 00:01:31
I'm also with interest to 1621 Village Drive. 00:01:33
I don't know. OK. 00:01:38
And if you could please present. 00:01:39
The plans tonight just tell us a little bit about what you're looking to. 00:01:42
To do and what you're asking them the Planning Commission. 00:01:46
So thank you for having us. 00:01:51
I mean, like I said, my name is Judy Mccune. 00:01:53
About six years now. 00:01:57
Just a little bit of background wallet. So we are vertically integrated real estate company based just outside of Columbus. 00:01:59
Primarily specializing in the affordable housing and senior senior living assisted living Manly care space. 00:02:06
So we've been around for 50 plus years and we. 00:02:14
Own and Oregon manage about 13,000 units throughout Ohio, Kentucky. 00:02:18
Indiana, Michigan. 00:02:23
The Carolinas and you know, I, we do have a couple assets in Illinois and Pennsylvania, yeah. 00:02:26
Umm, so you know, like I said, we're, we're vertically integrated, so we do the development for our own general contractor. 00:02:31
A property management and long term owner of any assets that we build. 00:02:39
So that's a little bit of high level overview on the wall, like if you have some more information if you'd like to like to see 00:02:44
that. Sure, that would be great. Thank you. 00:02:49
Fixing that. 00:02:54
Yeah, it's like a it's our little fish book background. Thank you. 00:02:58
So. 00:03:17
Ultimately, what we're proposing on Douglas St. is we are essentially asking for. 00:03:18
A rezoning for agricultural to our 5. 00:03:24
And our our plan is to construct. 00:03:28
This is the site that you have in front of you is 112. 00:03:30
Of 1-2 and three bedroom apartment. 00:03:34
So these apartment units, I say up to 112 because we're, you know, we're still working through some things with our architect, 00:03:38
engineer. 00:03:42
So, you know, we're still in the preliminary planning stages. 00:03:47
But what are? 00:03:51
Plan to do is we are going to. 00:03:52
Apply for an award of. 00:03:55
Housing tax credit from the State Finance Agency in August. 00:03:57
And that basically allows us to. 00:04:02
We take those credits that they're awarded to us as a competitive process and then we sell them to an investor. 00:04:05
That investor, then. 00:04:11
Gives U.S. equity to build a project. So that's how affordable housing development. 00:04:12
Around the country essentially works. 00:04:17
So. 00:04:20
You know, in order to construct those 112 units or up to 112 units, that's. 00:04:22
Essentially, that's what we need to. 00:04:26
Finance the said project. 00:04:28
So. 00:04:30
You know, the way we have it right now is that we have 41 bedroom units, 52 two bedrooms, a 23 bedroom. 00:04:32
It's now because we're applying for these tax credits. 00:04:37
All of the units will be rented, income restricted to. 00:04:41
Residents earning less than 80% of the area income. 00:04:44
So. 00:04:48
The tax credits that we received essentially require us to. 00:04:49
You know, cap the risk, so it's not like. 00:04:55
It's not like Section 8 or their subsidies to rent or low. 00:04:58
And the tax credit equity allows us to keep those rents low for a period of 30 years. 00:05:01
So. 00:05:07
You know wallet as a developer. 00:05:09
Contractor property manager. We would be the long term manager of the asset for at least 15 years. 00:05:11
And now you know, the target population is really, you know. 00:05:18
Seniors. 00:05:22
You know, families with. 00:05:25
You know, it's, it's basically Bailey's earning $65,000 a year or less. 00:05:27
So I mean that can be. 00:05:33
You'd be amazed at how many. 00:05:35
People that I mean. 00:05:37
Firefighters, police officers, teachers. 00:05:38
People that work in the service industry, the tourism industry. 00:05:41
You know, and go down the list. So you know, we built a similar product in golden green. 00:05:45
You know, it's was recently completed, so it's in the possible stuff, but it's really nice it's been. 00:05:51
It's been well received by the community. 00:05:56
You know, we're a professional contractor. It's built to, you know, any standard of a typical, what we call marketing project. 00:05:59
So you know all the units would come with. 00:06:07
Dishwashers. Fully equipped kitchen patios, balconies. 00:06:10
I mean, you know, again, just like you could see any normal apartment complex. 00:06:15
And then, you know, a Community Center with a playground. 00:06:18
On site management Central laundry facility. 00:06:22
Computer room, exercise room, you know, those are the types of entities that we would provide. 00:06:25
That is an analyst here I think, I think high level life cycling you guys have in front of you, you have a higher 12 units and. 00:06:31
After speaking with the mayor, driving home. 00:06:38
Senior housing lead, I think you're being intentionally flexible here. 00:06:42
To hear from you guys. 00:06:46
Hearing Everybody City. 00:06:47
Designing a project that really fits the need of where it is and what you guys are looking for. 00:06:49
I think 2 stories. 00:06:56
What we have right now, I don't want to. 00:06:57
Come in, but in. 00:07:00
Three story, four story account takes the yeah when you get the neighborhood and fit the aesthetic around it so. 00:07:01
We had on it. 00:07:09
Connecting with. 00:07:10
We have two entryways here, right up without the street, mayor. 00:07:11
The congestion, especially during traffic in school. 00:07:16
Having more than one entry and exit. 00:07:19
For families and students get picked up there. 00:07:21
Was another thing that was certainly consideration. 00:07:24
Yeah, and I think too, we, you know. 00:07:29
We have a, we'll have a plan to sort of landscape and buffer the residents in the neighborhood. That's fine there, but we 00:07:32
intentionally aren't connecting to those side streets for purposes of traffic. 00:07:36
So, yeah, I mean that, like I said, that's the project. You know, we're still, we're still working on number of bedrooms. 00:07:43
Unit count, you know, we are aware of. 00:07:49
You know, potential for underground storm sewer which could get expensive. 00:07:51
Again, you know this is all. 00:07:56
You know, it's preliminary and it's conceptual, but you know, by the time we advance this to a full application. 00:07:59
You know, maybe that's a good step with sort of the timeline that we're working with so. 00:08:05
We have to submit an application to the state housing agency in August 16th. 00:08:09
So by that point in time we would need some type of conditional zone. 00:08:15
That is, you know, that essentially allows us to submit our application. 00:08:19
You know the state agency gets. 00:08:24
Probably 70 applications a year and 30 don't get awards. Super competitive. 00:08:26
And you know. 00:08:32
It takes two or three months for the savings to review and then they announced the awards in October. 00:08:35
And at that point in time, then we would move to a full permanent set of plans. We would go through, you know. 00:08:41
All the due diligence, of course, meetings with. 00:08:46
You know the proper stakeholders. 00:08:50
So that's a little bit of. 00:08:52
You know, just kind of the time I'm working with and I should, you know. 00:08:54
I should have said this earlier, but we. 00:08:57
Currently do not own the real estate. We have another contract. 00:08:59
So. 00:09:03
The contract and I would assume the rezoning, the conditional rezoning is contingent upon the support. 00:09:04
If the war doesn't happen, then it's, you know, we can't make the number of work. 00:09:11
So. 00:09:14
And then obviously the the. 00:09:16
The land would state the current seller, current owner. 00:09:18
Percentage of senior living so you're. 00:09:24
It's referring to more independent living I'm assuming. 00:09:26
Yeah. And you know, we have the ability to, I mean. 00:09:30
So to see how the agency allows you to, do you know seniors 55 and older or you know what they call a general occupancy? 00:09:34
And to not get too much into the weeds, but like in order to be competitive and you know, to. 00:09:42
Make the deal with the numbers all pencil. 00:09:49
Like we need to have some level of economies of scale. 00:09:52
And having that 1-2 and three bedroom units like that. 00:09:55
That's kind of what's key. 00:09:58
You know we, we will, you know we have in our marketing place if we lease the seniors 55 and older. 00:10:01
But it's not restricted to that population. 00:10:07
And I should know too that we. 00:10:10
Do have will have to have 10% of our units be ADA accessible or? 00:10:12
You know Section 504 and Opus 88 accessibility standards? Sure. 00:10:17
So can there be exceptions in the allotment that would be just for seniors and some families? 00:10:23
Yeah, now there will be. 00:10:30
Because of the funds we're applying for, and I said it's up to 80% of the area median income, but we will have some units that 00:10:33
target residents that earn up to 50%, up to 60%. So like there's bands in between. 00:10:38
So it really does reach a lot of people and, you know, I think that. 00:10:44
Affordable housing now probably more than ever. 00:10:48
Is, you know, kind of recognizes as needed. 00:10:50
Rather than a. 00:10:53
You know, umm. 00:10:54
I guess that community. 00:10:55
You know, it carries A stigma all the time, but. 00:10:57
You know, we've had a lot of success and like I said, the program is. 00:11:02
Is highly successful and. 00:11:05
By far the largest tool for constructing affordable housing, not just a black in the United States. 00:11:08
Yeah, I think the most intentionally is our unit mix. So currently we're showing once while. 00:11:14
41 bedrooms, 52 bedrooms and generally our senior. 00:11:22
Communities are one and two bedrooms. 00:11:26
And I know a lot of seniors do prefer having like that two-bedroom unit, especially when they're. 00:11:28
Married or the partner or somebody in the house as well. So what do we want to design? 00:11:33
The land he has in front of you. 00:11:39
The 41 direction 52 really was a blend of the workforce. 00:11:41
The local workforce and considering procedures as well. 00:11:45
Tell me a little bit about safety and security. So obviously as your. 00:11:51
Well aware there's that's right in the heart of our school zone. You know, the elementary school in the middle school. 00:11:54
There's a lot of. 00:12:00
Children who and kids who walk. 00:12:01
Back and forth on that road. It's, it's, you know. 00:12:04
Ride their bikes so. 00:12:06
Obviously more people, more congestion, more traffic. 00:12:08
What about safety and security of? 00:12:13
Of. 00:12:15
Apartment complex as a whole you mentioned on site manager. 00:12:16
Can you tell us a little bit about that? 00:12:20
Yeah. So I mean given the size of the project is there will be an on site manager there 40 hours? 00:12:22
Plus we. 00:12:27
We installed our new properties a you know. 00:12:28
A pretty robust camera system. 00:12:31
That we actually. 00:12:33
Send the Police Department, they have life and care and you might have this better. There's a there's a name for it, I just can't 00:12:35
recall. 00:12:38
But the the Police Department basically has access to that camera system. You know they can. 00:12:43
Login, look at anytime you please. 00:12:49
But, you know, we typically don't. 00:12:52
You know, unless it's in. 00:12:54
You know, unless it's in a particular area for people, we don't really offer like. 00:12:56
You know, on site security, if that's what you're asking. But we do have cameras, you know, at the clubhouse. 00:13:00
You know, usually at all points of entry. 00:13:06
You know that he's either monitored by the property manager and the Police Department has access to. 00:13:10
Kids and the bikes. We currently have a 50 foot set back off the street. 00:13:16
So building would be kind of removed from Douglas so that there will be enough space. 00:13:20
I'm not sure we're showing on the sidewalk or anything along those. There'll be it won't be like kids running out the backyard and 00:13:25
then stumbling out of the street right away. 00:13:29
Plenty of them offer others and landscape as well, kind of Dubai, the community publishers as well. 00:13:33
I would assume we we. 00:13:39
Require us. 00:13:40
Least the sidewalk on your entire property, yeah. 00:13:42
Yeah, copy on both. 00:13:45
Yeah, and that's yeah. And you know, once we get past. 00:13:48
Make sure that gets all of the architectural plans. 00:13:52
Would we need? 00:13:55
Light a traffic light there or. 00:13:57
Photometric point. 00:14:00
A traffic light. 00:14:02
Now and what's my utilities? Are you comfortable that we would have enough to? 00:14:04
Chris, you mentioned in your letter that. 00:14:13
You know further ordinance for R5. 00:14:17
Umm, because of the residential density in this district, it cannot exceed 6 dwelling units, which is only 64 units. 00:14:21
And they're requesting 112. 00:14:30
Talk about that for a minute. 00:14:32
Yeah, just the the R5 zoning. 00:14:34
Certainly states that the density limitations. 00:14:37
And that residential density in the district shall not see 61. 00:14:41
Are there exceptions to that? 00:14:48
Yeah, this was a question our architect actually had. 00:14:53
Because I think somewhere where she saw there was 12 units an acre. 00:14:55
I can't exactly point to. 00:14:59
Stuck in the code, but I yeah that was something we could want to discuss. 00:15:00
I'm not sure where that shows well. 00:15:04
I would imagine. 00:15:10
But for a legal question, I don't know if you can. 00:15:12
Right, forgot, Chris, is the city engineer's letter. 00:15:17
We in the office talk about what actions there are if you don't. 00:15:20
Exactly the question you're asking them. 00:15:25
And we believe it would have to go to Law Director Furniture. 00:15:27
Gotcha. 00:15:33
I mean, because that's. 00:15:35
A big point, I'm sure that you. 00:15:37
Would like 112 units so. 00:15:39
Right. Yeah. And I mean again, like if we, if we. 00:15:42
Go with less units. Let's say it's 100. We're still going to. If that's the case, we're still need of like a severe things of some 00:15:45
kind of. 00:15:47
I don't know what the if there's like you said, there's something. 00:15:51
Some legality involved to it that we would have to discuss, sure. 00:15:55
You know, but I guess I would say too that, you know, we can. 00:16:00
For our the purposes of our application. 00:16:04
You know we can. 00:16:06
The land just has to be zoned for multifamily, you know, we can go for variances after the fact. 00:16:08
You know, I guess as long as we have some sort of level of comfort that. 00:16:15
You know it'll be approved and it's not going to be a ton of black, you know, just because. 00:16:18
You know, once the application goes in and especially if it's awarded, then we're kind of. 00:16:22
You know, the state agency is trusting us to ensure that it's done. 00:16:26
So sure. And that is something that we do have to resubmit the application, right? 00:16:31
If we can. 00:16:35
Come to resolution by October when they announced that weekend. 00:16:36
Justin, if we can afford the application, yeah. 00:16:39
The one thing I may say, ma'am, Chair, if I can, is that I mean, I'm going to restate the obvious, which is everybody looks at. 00:16:42
City of Vermillion has lived here for the only time, knows that we have two underserved demographics. 00:16:49
No seniors. 00:16:53
With affordable housing. 00:16:55
And the people of more modest meetings affordable. 00:16:57
New report. 00:16:59
And I believe based on what these gentlemen are saying in the equation, that would. 00:17:01
Address some of that need. 00:17:07
However. 00:17:10
It's also obvious that there are a lot of T's and IS to cross. 00:17:10
Go through things like. 00:17:15
Density and traffic, and probably wetlands and all the other things. 00:17:17
But just rough look at it first. 00:17:22
I would like to look further, Steve, whatever available senior housing and maybe. 00:17:25
Sure. What? What would you say is the percentage of? 00:17:30
This compared to all the apartments we currently have. 00:17:35
Percentage of this additional 100. 00:17:39
What would that be as a percentage of all the apartments are currently in? I tried to find that information and. 00:17:43
The only thing I could find online is it was about 24% in their million. 00:17:51
But I don't. I don't. 00:17:55
I don't know how accurate that is, so we don't know. 00:17:56
No. 00:18:05
And relative to the density is there, do we have other? 00:18:07
Complexes that exceed that. 00:18:11
66 units per acre. 00:18:14
I don't know if this was built years ago. 00:18:17
Yeah. So that was. 00:18:20
My grandfather dinner. 00:18:23
Protocol change. 00:18:26
I will say to. 00:18:28
You know, as part of our application at least our due diligence, we will get a full market study. 00:18:30
You know that we'll be able to answer some of those questions. I mean they're pretty in depth too and actually have a lot of good 00:18:36
to have that we're happy to share when that comes in. 00:18:40
Sure. 00:18:44
You know, I'm not opposed to the. 00:18:46
Senior housing. 00:18:49
I'm not sure this is the right. 00:18:51
This this location. 00:18:54
Right next to the. 00:18:57
Schools and parks. 00:18:58
Everything. 00:19:00
Cries for housing or apartment complex that. 00:19:01
Goes to young families maybe. 00:19:06
As opposed to senior? 00:19:09
Well, it does. 00:19:10
Yeah, Yeah. I mean, I'm not this is, this is by number means strictly senior. We're just saying we can market it to seniors and 00:19:12
seniors can live here, but. 00:19:15
You know. 00:19:19
Single mom with three kids, you know certainly that you know. 00:19:21
Business, you know the three different units in particular designed for that. 00:19:24
That type of demographic. 00:19:28
So you're gonna. 00:19:30
Intermingle both. 00:19:30
Correct. Yes. And we see that's pretty. 00:19:32
These are seniors who you said independent living. So they're absolutely, they 100% do the care on their own. There's no assisted 00:19:35
living, there's no nursing home care. 00:19:39
And we see the luck. You would like some of the accessible units where there's 48 features, even it's unrefavorable properties 00:19:45
the. 00:19:49
Folks that tend to live in our older. 00:19:52
And not necessarily fully disabled, but have some level of disability. 00:19:55
Sure, you'll have elevators. 00:19:58
No, no elevators. No elevators. 00:20:00
That may be hard for yeah, I mean, but the first war will be, I mean, it's not like there's commercial space on the 1st floor. So 00:20:03
I mean, they're just split level 2 story. 00:20:08
A good story walk up. 00:20:15
But all the accessible units to your point would have to be on the ground. 00:20:16
So one up to the other. 00:20:21
So the market study will kind of help us. 00:20:25
Dictate that but like. 00:20:28
You know, I think preliminary we have for a. 00:20:29
You know a one bedroom unit? Call it. 00:20:33
775 to 1000 or yeah to about 1000. 00:20:35
Two-bedroom. 00:20:39
About 1000 to 1200. 00:20:40
And then a three bedroom. 00:20:42
You know, 1250 to like 1400. Again, it depends on that income. 00:20:44
So you know. 00:20:49
The units that are at the 50% in command are going to be cheaper and once you get to 80%, you know. 00:20:50
You're, you know, at 20% of what the market Rep would be. So you're still at. 00:20:56
Discount to. 00:21:01
You know, to the rented area. 00:21:04
Is this similar to what you would build? 00:21:06
An example of a building like that you're referring to and that you gave us, or I guess I'm just trying to understand what the 00:21:09
style of the building would look like. 00:21:13
These are a little taller maybe. Yeah, actually, this is this is an assisted living property that's in Sylvania in Toledo, but. 00:21:19
Probably a good example of. 00:21:27
Harding Village. 00:21:29
Yeah, Arnie villages are the examples. So that's yeah. 00:21:31
OK. So do you have any estimates on what it's like? 00:21:36
The total occupancy would be in terms of the number of people. 00:21:41
What that what that would mean? 00:21:45
Please interact is another. 00:21:49
Yeah, 200, give or take. 00:21:54
Yeah, I mean. 00:21:57
And in terms of like, you know, real estate investment and this is a $3541.00 project, so I mean. 00:21:58
It's, you know, a handful of temporary construction jobs. 00:22:04
To then you know 3 to 4. 00:22:08
Part time. 00:22:11
You know, over property manager, maintenance technicians. 00:22:12
Yeah, we do. You know wallet. 00:22:18
It's been a we've been around for a long time. We have. 00:22:20
A very deep base of subcontractors that we work with. 00:22:23
You know, in Cleveland, Northwest Ohio, so. 00:22:29
You know, we make an effort and you know, a lot of the funding sources be applied for required to use, you know, local trades. 00:22:32
So yeah, we're just a general contract that we, you know, have a full self contract is that we work with, but they're not really. 00:22:40
So you see the architectural style would be representative what we see here for Harden Village. Yeah, I think we deal with the 00:22:52
color way, yeah. And we work globally with like. 00:22:57
Kind of fit more of a scenic like obviously for million beyond the lake. See more of those like pallet Blues whites. 00:23:03
And we have other products. 00:23:09
In places that we found out comes to mind like a nice blue and white rather than like the tan or but if we were to architect. 00:23:11
You know really good about. 00:23:20
Seems like this we work with RDL Architects are based out of Cleveland. 00:23:22
Do more different reviews. 00:23:27
Yeah. 00:23:31
You know, once we get, you know, to that point, then we'll have you know. 00:23:32
Renderings for. 00:23:35
Architectural set and. 00:23:37
You know, further on top of the timeline and I guess it's sort of a big continue that. 00:23:38
You know if the project is awarded in October. 00:23:43
It does take us some time to. 00:23:47
Get all our financing together. We have to bundle those tax credits and sell them to an investor. There's a process that's 00:23:49
involved, so. 00:23:52
You know, typically we would try to begin construction. 00:23:55
At the end of the. 00:23:58
Following year so. 00:24:00
Call it. 00:24:02
Follow up 26 sounds crazy segment. 00:24:03
Yeah. And then about 15 to 17 month construction. 00:24:06
OK. And all the American states that they're open, there's no garages or correct, no. 00:24:11
I have two questions. Is there a number I? 00:24:20
A low number that you'd be comfortable with, with the minimum if 112. 00:24:23
So it's 112. 00:24:28
Is not. Is not available. 00:24:29
Is there a low number that you'd be comfortable with? 00:24:31
So. 00:24:34
So a little bit of a that's not a loaded question, but there's a lot of factors that later that one I mean. 00:24:36
The seller of the land has made it pretty clear that. 00:24:41
He's telling us all this or nothing. 00:24:44
So you know in. 00:24:46
So that the price is what it's going to be. 00:24:48
You know, so less units, you know, the less speed. 00:24:50
The less units we have to pay for the purchase price. 00:24:53
So you know, that's way #1 point #2 is that. 00:24:56
The tiebreaker for the funding source that we're applying for is number of opponents. 00:25:00
So like we're trying to be sort of strategic with how we compete for these funds. 00:25:05
So you know, to answer your question, I think we probably need to be like. 00:25:10
At a minimum of. 00:25:15
I think at that point we might have the like less than the one bedrooms and more size, yeah. 00:25:18
Kind of get those and that would be the second question you mentioned based on. 00:25:24
Median income. 00:25:29
Before 2 bedroom would be 1000 to 1200. 00:25:31
Just a spitballing. 00:25:33
But. 00:25:35
Hey, did you do market research on some of the other apartment complexes that are new in the area? 00:25:37
There's one in particular in Word for. 00:25:42
Which umm. 00:25:44
They have a 2 bedroom with A2 car garage. 00:25:45
And it's at the high end. 00:25:49
Of that. 00:25:51
Pricing so. 00:25:52
Is it affordable housing? 00:25:54
At that rate for a 2 bedroom. 00:25:56
Just trying to get to that price. Yeah, you know, and again, like I said, don't don't quote me on the exact number that's. 00:25:59
That will come with a market study, but you know, keep in mind too that. 00:26:06
You know we're also paying as part of that rent, water, sewer and trash. 00:26:10
I don't know if that's apples to apples with that. So I mean it, you know, it does get a little bit complicated. 00:26:13
But you know, at the 80% AMI income level. 00:26:19
You know that's. 00:26:22
You know that takes into account the. 00:26:24
Erie County. 00:26:26
Irrigating something it deducts, so there's a quake basically involved with it. OK. 00:26:28
And we'll have that data as we commissioned the brightest study and it's probably a four or five being turn around. 00:26:32
Before we'll have let that concrete number. 00:26:39
So for your application that you have to spend on August 16. 00:26:43
You need to put the number of units that you're requesting, so we would need to get them an answer from legal. 00:26:46
To see if that's feasible prior to them. 00:26:53
So they could submit the application. 00:26:55
I walk into it. I'm not sure legal can tell you what they can do. They'll probably tell you what of course they can file to apply. 00:26:59
Like I said, if we have to go through the variance process, we. 00:27:08
I don't know if that goes to the Training Commission or. 00:27:11
I guess we could talk at a different date, but. 00:27:17
And so. 00:27:25
Your request this evening is for us to make a recommendation for rezoning. 00:27:26
So. 00:27:32
Should this project fall through for any reason? 00:27:34
Than we have. 00:27:36
Made that recommendation to rezone that property and are we comfortable with that? 00:27:39
The other thing is once, once you. 00:27:46
If you approve this the rezoning. 00:27:48
Strasburg Council 3 Sure, yes. 00:27:50
Yes. 00:27:54
And yes. And will that happen before? 00:27:55
August 16. 00:27:59
No, no, there will be two. 00:28:01
No one. 00:28:05
Now we have a meeting. 00:28:08
To one on 22nd, 1:00 on. 00:28:10
So we make a recommendation this evening as Planning Commission and then it goes to our City Council. 00:28:17
And they have the final say to give you approval. 00:28:23
And and there's so many readings. 00:28:27
And they're already scheduled meetings, so. 00:28:31
You know, we wouldn't be able to watch the reading before August. 00:28:35
Three or can you make that an emergency? 00:28:40
Case. 00:28:43
221st. 00:28:46
Council meeting. 00:28:48
And then the 11th of the committee, special counsel, Yeah. So they also want to be the earliest. 00:28:51
We can work with that, OK. 00:28:58
But we would have to announce it. 00:29:00
So what if this? 00:29:08
You can't change it back. 00:29:11
It was my understanding this was a conditional rezoning. 00:29:16
Maybe I'm wrong, but like. 00:29:19
If the rezoning is continued upon your project, this project being successful. So like if it doesn't happen and it just goes back 00:29:21
to what it was, I could be wrong. 00:29:24
So OK. 00:29:41
Yeah. And like, I mean, I think that our. 00:29:43
Our seller is pretty supportive of what we're doing. 00:29:45
You know what's an issue with it if it falls through for Dusty? 00:29:49
I think I can run it by him but. 00:29:55
But yeah, I guess it. 00:30:00
Hopefully it will not worry about it. Something gets the work. 00:30:01
Sure. 00:30:04
Do your projects typically get awarded when you submit the application? 00:30:07
I think, I think we're pretty good, right. I mean, I think we don't really advance applications especially we don't. 00:30:12
Waste their time coming up right? We wouldn't be here if we didn't do. 00:30:19
Right. And I mean it's, you know, quite frankly, you know our dollar for putting out to advance this application to get it to a. 00:30:25
You know, a 5050 chance. 00:30:31
I mean, but that's the way the business works. I mean, that's the way the tax credit program is. It's just competitive. Yeah, this 00:30:33
one's full score. The full score. They've identified Gary Counties. 00:30:38
Last doctor said no reconstruction. Affordable housing units across full county. Yes zero. Sandusky Vermillion. 00:30:43
And really what this program is tailored towards the? 00:30:50
Marker scale places that can't get neglected in the previous rounds in terms of geography so. 00:30:53
You're making the three C's. 00:30:58
Big cities and an Appalachian really gonna hit the other programs that. 00:30:59
I think there comes any kind of thing areas and they looked in that way. 00:31:03
By opening historian the way that it did here. So we kind of follow the promise to the high score. 00:31:07
That the state goes out and it's like it's right up to permain. 00:31:14
Your time specifically on this side or what side of? 00:31:17
Per million so. 00:31:20
I feel confident. 00:31:22
And it's going to be worth so much. Better come up here. 00:31:23
Sound language throwing application. Waste of time. 00:31:26
Cross our fingers. We feel pretty good, Yeah. And we, you know. 00:31:29
We can only apply for so many. 00:31:32
You know different resources in certain application around, so you can only get a couple of bytes on behalf. 00:31:34
Um. 00:31:41
So I guess in terms of, you know, let's say we do end up reducing our human count to 80 or 90, whatever the case may be, so. 00:31:42
Would that just be have to be? 00:31:49
Reproposed it. 00:31:52
City Council. 00:31:54
But if we reduce 3 income, we have to come back to the Planning Commission. 00:31:56
OK, so once. 00:32:08
If council approved it. 00:32:10
And you'd have to come back to Planning Commission for recycling. 00:32:11
Yeah, which is a more complex site plan which would need to include everything landscaping. 00:32:15
Sidewalks. Everything. 00:32:22
Yeah. 00:32:27
Fair enough. 00:32:28
But I think. 00:32:30
The legal department, if they could get them. 00:32:33
You know, some sort of guidance. 00:32:36
On this for their application process. 00:32:38
Healthy. 00:32:42
It's an important step, I think. 00:32:43
For you to determine. 00:32:47
You know. 00:32:49
What's next? 00:32:50
Any other questions? 00:32:54
Any questions from the Commission? 00:32:59
Any questions from the audience? 00:33:02
Sure. 00:33:08
If you could just state your name and address for the record, please sure. 00:33:10
My name is Karen April, My address is 4788 Buckingham Drive. 00:33:14
Actually grew up in Vermilion now, so I'm excited here with the team tonight. 00:33:20
Yeah. 00:33:25
Yeah, I did want to mention while I was sitting there, I looked and it's actually on like your zoning summary page is where it's 00:33:26
showing. 00:33:29
The 12 going units per acre under our five, so you have kind of. 00:33:33
Like a homepage for zoning districts. And that's probably where the confusion is. 00:33:37
Yeah, because that's what made brought up so OK. 00:33:42
So just something that. 00:33:45
To take a look at. 00:33:46
So I just want to worry about that. 00:33:48
OK, which page is it? 00:33:51
Our test takes a pretty deep dive right there on the bottom right hand corner. 00:34:03
They try to align the code with. 00:34:08
Sure, District. 00:34:10
On our city here on your city sites when you scroll to archive. 00:34:13
The way on here are. 00:34:18
6 Here's our 5. 00:34:20
So the last second to last. 00:34:23
Just the 12th. Very interesting. OK, yeah, good. 00:34:26
Thank you. Thank you. 00:34:33
So there are no further questions. 00:34:39
Do I have a? 00:34:43
Recommendation to. 00:34:45
Change the zoning from our four urban residents to our five apartment residents. 00:34:48
Contingent, we would make that recommendation to City Council. 00:34:56
Contention upon. 00:35:01
Also meeting the additional things that. 00:35:03
Chris put in his. 00:35:06
Letter as well. 00:35:08
So we have. 00:35:11
Well, I think that needs to be. 00:35:17
If I understand correctly, but I'm asking the law director is. 00:35:20
If the density becomes challenged later on. 00:35:25
Of course, what recourse do they have? But. 00:35:29
I don't know. I don't think, Chris, I don't really think it affects your. 00:35:32
Now I think they need to know that because they need to put the number of units for their applications. 00:35:38
So they that's kind of an important step one for them to proceed. 00:35:45
To their next step. 00:35:49
OK. 00:35:52
2nd. 00:35:56
We'll vote Chapel. 00:35:59
Williams No. 00:36:02
Shirley yes. 00:36:04
Hammer, Schmidt. 00:36:06
For me. 00:36:08
Motion carries. 00:36:09
OK. Thank you. 00:36:14
1st. 00:36:18
Hey. 00:36:24
This one that you have in front, you can read the underground. 00:36:30
All right, being no further business, I will adjourn the meeting. 00:36:36
Our next screening is scheduled for August 6. 00:36:47
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